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Temat postu: Search place of birth from death certificate
 Wysłany: 02-02-2024 - 22:50
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Dołączył: 07-01-2019
Posty: 18
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Hello and good evening.
I have been looking for a solution to a dead point in my lineage for a very long time.
I have a death entry dated May 17, 1837 in Golas near Gabin, which says:
Golas
№ 55.
Działo się w Gombinie dnia siedmnastego Maya tysiąc
ośmset trzydziestego siódmego roku o godzinie iedynastey
przed południem. Stawili się Józef Bernhard lat czte-
rydzieści dziewięć maiący i Gottfryd Minz* lat trzydzieści
sześć maiący i obadway Gospodarze w Golasie zamieszkali
i oświadczyli: że w dniu wczorayszym o godzinie siódmey
wieczór umarł w Golasie Krysztof Eisenbrenner Gospo-
darz w Golasie zamieszkały w Xięstwie Poznańskim uro-
dzony, lat sześćdziesiąt trzy maiący, zostawiwszy po sobie
owdowiałą żonę Maryannę z Klattów. Po namyśle-
niu się stawaiący oświadczyli ieszcze: że zmarły rodził
się we wsi Miastowie** pod miasteczkiem Szokken
i że rodzice iego nazywaią się Piotr Eisenbrenner i
Rozyna z Rönnów. Po przekonaniu się naocznie
o zeyściu Krysztofa Eisenbrenner akt ten przeczytany
został stawaiącym, pisać nie umiejącym
Dudas on forum.ahnenforschung.net then wrote me the following:
I would first concentrate on Mieścisko, which used to be called Nowe-Miasto. This is at least close to Skoki/Schokken.
It is Miastów/Miastowo/Miastowa...
In my opinion, it is as I have written. "we wsi Miastowie" (can be shortened to "w Miastowie") is grammatically correct and corresponds to the priest's spelling of T and Ł. Cf. "w Nieświastowie".
How can I find birth or baptismal certificates from the period 1770-1775?
Where did this place belong? Was there a Protestant church at the time or just a Catholic one?
and who can I turn to if I can't search locally myself?
Greetings Christian |
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Pozdrawiam
Christian Wolfrum
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Wolfrum |
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 04-02-2024 - 14:31
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Dołączył: 07-01-2019
Posty: 18
Status: Offline
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 04-02-2024 - 15:19
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Dołączył: 06-05-2020
Posty: 44
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Wolfrum |
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 05-02-2024 - 10:41
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Dołączył: 07-01-2019
Posty: 18
Status: Offline
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Good morning.
What makes you think that Skoki could be right? I have already searched Schokken's evangelical books years ago. I couldn't read Polish then, I'll search them again, but I think that's too far away from the previous places that come into consideration. |
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Pozdrawiam
Christian Wolfrum
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barbarat |
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 06-02-2024 - 00:37
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Dołączył: 15-09-2023
Posty: 31
Status: Offline
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Hi. This is a map of the mentioned Poznan Duchy (Xsiestwo Poznanskie), where your ancestor was born.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... o_1820.jpg
This is from 1820, so it is fairly close to his death. This name didn't exist before 1800, so the witnesses either made a mistake telling the deceased age (which happened a lot; people didn't keep track of age as we do today) or were just referring to the current (to them) map.
Personally, I think, the latter is more likely because it's clear from the document that they have given this a thought.
As you can see, Miescisko and Schokken are shown there to be of comparable size, while the document says that the death happened in a village, to which Schokken was the closest town. So, it looks must have been something smaller.
However... if you look at this map, and it's by far the most detailed map from those times, nothing may be called this name, so your guess may be quite correct.
check for yourself:
https://polona.pl/item-view/9e02d129-fa ... 23a?page=2 |
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pozdrawiam
Barbara
szukam: Makuch+Kowalski, Smolin+Wodecki
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 06-02-2024 - 03:29
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Dołączył: 11-07-2021
Posty: 1198
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barbarat napisał:
As you can see, Miescisko and Schokken are shown there to be of comparable size, while the document says that the death happened in a village, to which Schokken was the closest town. So, it looks must have been something smaller.
I can't agree with you, because according to this book from 1807, Skoki/Schokken was a town [małe miasto; kleine Stadt] with 157 chimneys [dymy; Rauchfänge] and Mieścisko was a small town or village [miasteczko; Städtchen] with 43 chimneys. |
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Łukasz
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barbarat |
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 07-02-2024 - 23:11
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Dołączył: 15-09-2023
Posty: 31
Status: Offline
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Not sure what are you disagreeing with. I didn't give a conclusive answer, and I said that it looks, but obviously, it's an old map I'm looking at. Since you have a better source, this matter is at least settled. No reason to start an argument where there was none 
We are in agreement, though, that it's those two towns that are described in the document, and that's what is important.
I left the final interpretation to Wolfrum. |
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pozdrawiam
Barbara
szukam: Makuch+Kowalski, Smolin+Wodecki
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Wolfrum |
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 09-02-2024 - 11:36
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Dołączył: 07-01-2019
Posty: 18
Status: Offline
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Hello
I have spent the last few days searching baptisms in Znin, Schubin and Exin 1770-1795.
In none of these places does the family name Palilód or Eisbrenner appear in any form.
I also searched in general for entries from the place Miastowitz https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/20179074
In Exin alone there were entries for the neighboring village of Zurawia, but not from Miastowitz.
Where did Miastowitz belong if the people did not go to Exin? Where can I search?
In 1819 he is called Krysztof Palilud, in his probably 3rd marriage Kutnow 1819 No. 14
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php ... &zoom=1.25
Regarding Miescisko: there are no accessible church records here that I could search.
In Popowo I have previously searched the company Past&Future from Gnesen, but without results.
How can I search here? Where can I find searchable church records?
More than these 2 places seem to be out of the question.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) |
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Pozdrawiam
Christian Wolfrum
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Wolfrum |
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 14-02-2024 - 21:26
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Dołączył: 07-01-2019
Posty: 18
Status: Offline
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Good evening.
In addition to Znin, Schubin and Kcynia/Exin
I have searched the following RK church records:
Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Nakło nad Notecią (Wyrzysk)
Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Wyrzysk (Wyrzysk)
Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Słupy (Szubin)
I couldn't find any reference to the family there either.
Some books I could not find online:
Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Srebrnagóra (Wągrowitz)
Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Szaradowo (Szubin)
Where could these be searched?
I still have the following documents on the person I am looking for:
Christoph Eisbrenner / Krysztof Palilód was present at his sister's wedding:
Marianna Eisbrenner / Maryanna Palilód
marries Kichael Kleinschmidt (Michal Kleinszmit) on January 22, 1815 in Suserz near Gabin
No. 6
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/de/ ... 5563c717f2
I only have one translation in German, here is the translation in English
In the year 1815 on January 22nd at 12 noon.
Before us the provost and civil servants of the parish of Suserz.
There appeared Michal Kleinszmit 24 years old on the basis of the certificate of recognition in assistance of the father Jan and Dorota Elzbieta née Szmeychler ? from the parish Trebskie ?
also Maryanna Paliwoda, 22 years old, daughter of Piotr and Rozyna, née Renow, based on her statement, assisted by her brother Krysztof Palilod, 45 years old, village schoolmaster, living at number 2.
a suspected brother is
Michael Eisbrenner (Michal Palliod)
He marries Anna Maria Nickolei (Anna Maryanna Mikolay) on October 27, 1811 in Lubstow near Sompolno.
No. 3 / 1811
https://eisbrenner.rpgame.de/Wolfrum/do ... _1811.jpeg
Again, I only have a translation in German, here this one in English:
In the year 1811 on 27.10
Before us the provost of Lubstow entrusted with the duties of the civil registrar of the Lubstow commune in the Pyzdowski powiat in the Poznan department.
There appeared Michal Palliod, single man, colonist living in Goczki, who, due to the impossibility of obtaining a birth certificate, presented a certificate taken from the book of the Wojt (village schoolmaster, community leader) of the community of Suldno/Sadlno, (namely) that his age was 27 years, born in Szubin from the mother Rozyna and Piotr the father Palliod in the department of Bydgoszcz
So the Schubin district seems to be the right one.
But I don't know where to find the entries. |
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Pozdrawiam
Christian Wolfrum
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 15-02-2024 - 15:09
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Dołączył: 11-07-2021
Posty: 1198
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Hi,
Wolfrum napisał:
Some books I could not find online:
Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Srebrnagóra (Wągrowitz)
Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Szaradowo (Szubin)
Where could these be searched?
In your case, it's impossible to do genealogical research remotely (unless in a piecemeal fashion), since many of the metric books from that period are either in the archdiocese archives or in the parish - if they survived at all.
On the website of the Archdiocese of Gniezno you can search the collection regarding the books.
http://www.archiwum.archidiecezja.pl/ka ... -line.html
Wolfrum napisał:
So the Schubin district seems to be the right one.
Maybe you should first look for Michael's baptismal entry.
Wolfrum napisał:
Where did Miastowitz belong if the people did not go to Exin? Where can I search?
My guess is the parish of Dziewierzewo
BTW:
Wolfrum napisał:
Dorota Elzbieta née Szmeychler
Szmeychel (w assystencyi [...] Doroty Elżbiety Szmeychlówny)
Wolfrum napisał:
from the parish Trebskie
from the parish of Trębki (z parafii Trębskiéy) |
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Łukasz
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Wolfrum |
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Temat postu:
Wysłany: 15-02-2024 - 19:33
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Dołączył: 07-01-2019
Posty: 18
Status: Offline
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Good evening Lakiluk.
Unfortunately, the archive in Gniezno does not provide any new information.
Church records for Dziewierzewo are only listed there from 1829 onwards, as well as at familysearch.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/cat ... %20Library
However, my ancestors were demonstrably already in the area around Babiak or Debno from 1795.
In the RK church registers of Exin before 1794 there is nothing recorded with the family names.
These can be viewed on familysearch.org.
He was unable to produce or obtain Michael's birth record himself. How am I supposed to get it? The only clue so far is "Kreis Schubin". I don't have a clue here. According to the death certificate, the sister's place of birth should be near Sompolno. That would fit with Babiak. He was still a single man when he married, I don't know where to look for him here.
Many thanks for the 2 corrections.
Greetings Christian |
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Pozdrawiam
Christian Wolfrum
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