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KrysRadzOffline
15 Temat postu: "Kaletrershava Diocese" in 'Sherba, Russia'.  PostWysłany: 18-09-2020 - 03:34


Dołączył: 16-09-2020
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Skąd: New Jersey, USA
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Looking for a Marriage between Tomasz Radziewicz and Maryjanna likely around 1889, maybe between 1885-1890, in "Kaletrershava Diocese" in "Sherba, Russia" ... but I cannot find a "Sherba, Russia". Not sure if this was in the Kingdom of Poland, or someplace else in the Russian Empire. These place names are from oral family tradition, I do not have any documents with these names.

Any guesses?

Thank you for your ideas!
 
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pdanielakOffline
Temat postu: "Kaletrershava Diocese" in  PostWysłany: 18-09-2020 - 08:32
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Hi.
Do you know when Tomasz arrived to USA/Canada ? do you have any passenger list?


Piotr
 
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mlszwOffline
Temat postu:   PostWysłany: 18-09-2020 - 10:18
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Piotr is right. If you want people here to help you, you need to show all sources you have. Just show the photocopies of the sources. You can upload them to some data sharing webside and embed the links here.

Neither "Kaletrershava Diocese" nor "Sherba, Russia" sound like anything I have ever heard of. These are probably extremely distorted place names. My guess is you got them from some immigration documents. The Immigration officers had no knowledge of the geography of Central/Eastern Europe and filled the forms in from hearing. The process is well depicted in Godfather II – that’s what it looked like.

_________________
Pozdrawiam

Marek

PS: W wiadomościach poprzez PW proszę zaznaczać opcję "Powiadom e-mailem".
 
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KrysRadzOffline
Temat postu:   PostWysłany: 22-09-2020 - 19:43


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In this specific case, it's exactly as I say in the initial post: there are no documents with these place names, just oral history passed down from person to person in the family. My Polish-speaking Great-great Grandparents were illiterate and these names are phonetic transcriptions by my Aunt, recalling what she was verbally told as a child--that they were married someplace different than where they lived, and that place was the "Kaletrershava Diocese" in "Sherba, Russia".

I've been trying to find lists of Diocese names from 1905 or earlier, as well as indices of old maps, to list out city names. Latin or Cyrillic alphabets are fine. From those, I can try and make some educated guesses as to exactly how my American family bastardized the names!

All of the US documentation I have (US Death Certificates, Ship Manifest Passenger Lists, and US Census), written in English, list "Suwałki, Poland" or "Poland, Russia" as birthplaces - but even in gubernia suwalska I am not seeing a diocese that could possibly be "Kaletrershava" -- so I am hypothesizing that wherever "Kaletrershava" is would be what is now modern day Lithuania, Kaliningrad Oblast of Russia, Belarus--the areas that border the historic gubernia suwalska.
 
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mjasionOffline
Temat postu:   PostWysłany: 22-09-2020 - 22:28
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Sherba sounds a bit like Szczebra [in English transliteration: Shchebra] - a village near Augustów. The village was a locus of a parish, but the church burned down during World War II and was never rebuilt (it was rebuilt in the village of Szczepki).

The territory of the Governorate of Suwałki (gubernia suwalska) belonged to the Diocese of Augustów vel Sejny (https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diecezja_sejne%C5%84ska). It is strange that your ancestors were speaking about "diocese" instead of "parish", they were from. Neither in the standard Polish language nor in the Suwałki dialect (which I know more or less) "Kaletrershava" is not similar to anything. The same concerns Lithuanian (but I do not speak Lithuanian, so I am not sure) or Russian. The initial part of the word (Kalet) one can associate with eg. Kaletnik - a parish village located north of Suwałki. And that's it. I do not remember any place in the Suwałki area ending with " -szawa". So concluding - the name is so corrupted that it is virtually impossible to reconstruct it.

You mentioned earlier that Tomasz and Marianna (what was her surname, BTW) had four children. Are they born in Poland? When the couple emigrated to America? We need more data.

Check this:
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/ ... 0868635096
They were from Szczebra.

Marek
 
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KrysRadzOffline
Temat postu:   PostWysłany: 25-09-2020 - 03:20


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Well, was going to upload my research to google drive and give a link to share ... but with the outage, that will have to wait another day!

Marek, very interesting find on Geni. I have several different spellings of an "O" last name for Maryjanna. Looking forward to sharing when the internet is working again. Thank you.
 
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KrysRadzOffline
Temat postu:   PostWysłany: 25-09-2020 - 17:54


Dołączył: 16-09-2020
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Google Drive is co-operating today! Smile

Use this link to request access:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

In the folder are 3 files:
- a PDF that details research I have so far
- a jpg of Tomasz's ship manifest
- a jpg of Maryjanna's ship manifest (including the 4 kids; Helena, Anna, Josef, and Stanisław).
 
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